Naz Pauperio: You Are Not Your Clothes

What if fashion wasn't about expressing who you are, but about letting your actions speak louder than your wardrobe? This week, we sit down with Naz Pauperio, co-founder of FIFI, a Portugal-based sustainable clothing company that's flipping the fashion industry on its head.

The Revolutionary Approach: While fast fashion churns out 50-60 new collections daily, FIFI offers just six black items designed to last years, not seasons. Their radical philosophy? "You are unique. You are not your clothes. Your clothes don't define you."

What You'll Discover:

• Why FIFI's founders would be happy to never see you again (seriously!)
• The digital passport revolution coming to track every garment's journey
• How Portugal's rich textile heritage is fueling sustainable innovation
• Why younger generations are choosing charity shops over shopping malls
• The shocking CEO-to-worker pay gaps driving fashion's sustainability crisis

Standout Quote: "We'd be happy if we don't see you again. That sounds kind of crazy, but that's what we believe. We'd rather have lots of customers that come to us, but really they're buying one piece and they don't need to come to us very often."

Whether you're a conscious consumer or curious about sustainable business models, Naz's mission to "close the loop and open minds" offers a refreshing take on fashion that prioritizes planet over profit.

Connect with Naz & FIFI:

• Website: fifi-wear.com
• Instagram: @fifiwear

Where to Listen & Watch

Podcast Platforms:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify
• Amazon Music
• YouTube

Follow Now, Near, and the Future:

• Website: nownearfuture.com
• Instagram: @nownearfuture
• LinkedIn: @nownearfuture
• Facebook: Now, Near, and the Future

Transcript

HDco (00:01.336)
Welcome to Now and Here in the Future. I'm Quinn Harrington.

Naila Mr (00:04.706)
And I'm Naila Mir. Today's episode is about fashion that doesn't cost the earth, literally.

HDco (00:11.726)
We're not talking about red carpets or catwalks. We're talking sustainability. What we wear, how it's made, and why it matters.

Naila Mr (00:22.096)
Our guest today is Nars Palperio, a communication expert and also a co-founder of Fifi, a Portugal based brand challenging the fashion system, I'm going to say, or industry if you want to call it, with sustainable style and fierce values, which we will get into a bit more.

HDco (00:41.848)
So if you're a trendsetter or a conscious closet minimalist, it doesn't matter. This episode is sure to entertain you.

Naila Mr (00:51.322)
So we're going to stay tuned to what our brand is now, now and future. And we're going to jump into the now of segment. So fast fashion. It's affordable and it's a bit of a mess, people say environmentally. Nas, what's the reality from your perspective?

Naz (01:13.191)
Firstly, thank you very much for having me. Very excited to be here to talk about something very close to my heart. So Fifi was born out of the fact that we were using our own children's clothes to recycle through all of our sort of all of our kids. And we could see that durable clothing really lasted. And for us, this was really important. A, because we know that 10 % of carbon emissions come from the fashion industry. So to be able to actually recycle and reuse the clothes for our children meant that

We had a story to tell through each piece of clothing and each garment, but also we were protecting the planet through this recycling and reuse. And that's really where Fifi was born from.

Naila Mr (01:54.736)
Okay. And how do you stand out? So we're going to go a bit more into your brand for those who don't understand, you know, certain terminologies like fast fashion or circular economy, but maybe you can help us understand a bit more through your brand. This world is dominated by big retailers, right? And most of them talk about sustainability in their value chain. Some call it greenwashing.

How do you stand out as a brand or as an organization?

Naz (02:28.391)
I think for me, yeah, I think there's a couple of things here. Even the brands that are talking about being extremely sustainable are bringing out new collections on a daily basis. So you'll see big brands who say, we're really looking after the planet, we're very conscious, we're sustainable. But then if you go to their websites, you'll see that in one day, they might've released 50 to 60 new collections. And this is really about overconsumption.

So at Fifi, we don't have new collections, we don't have trends, we aren't following trends. We have six items of clothing, they are there all the time, they are black, simple pieces made to last. So the idea is that the clothing actually grows with you. We don't want it to be thrown away, we don't want you coming back to our site to buy lots of new items. We really want to have a few customers, but coming back very rarely, it's really about...

that piece of clothing lasting, being there for the future, made from ethically sourced local production. So we're based in Portugal, we produce all of our garments in Portugal, and we actually ship from the country that you buy in. So this is another big feature. We're not shipping things across the world, so we don't have a large carbon footprint, and we just have one collection.

HDco (03:47.308)
is blowing my mind. This is like the exact opposite of everything that we learned about marketing, especially when it's coming to consumer packaged goods, which you could consider apparel, one of those. Even very eco-conscious brands, they're launching new lines at least seasonally four times a year. So they may be just variations in color or variations in cut.

Naz (04:12.947)
Absolutely.

HDco (04:16.758)
you know, staying on the same thing, but you know, there's always something new. How do you address consumers who are like, OK, so I bought all six pieces now what?

Naz (04:26.851)
It sounds kind of crazy, but our model is not to make huge profits. We're not looking to become a big corporation that's kind of, you know, got wild profits and, you know, taken over the fashion industry. We really want to have lots of customers that come to us, but really they're buying one piece of item and they don't need to come to us very often. And the other big thing I think about Fifi that's important to talk about is we don't believe that your clothes express who you are.

They are, it's black clothes. The idea behind it is something like a stagehand that's sort of in the background. The clothes aren't what expresses who they are. You you are who you are. What expresses you are your thoughts, your actions, the things you do. It's not your clothes. So your clothes are black, they're simple. You can sort of be in the background, but you can still express everything you want to in the way that you do things. And I think that's one of the issues we found with the fashion industry as well. It's...

It's trying to convince people that if you buy this piece of clothing you're going to look better, if you buy this piece of clothing you're going to feel better, you're going to be a different person. We don't believe that at Fifi. It doesn't matter what you wear. as long as you're wearing something that's made to last, that's comfortable, that you feel good about buying because it's been ethically made and sourced, that's what's important and that's for me another reason why Fifi stands out.

Naila Mr (05:47.362)
Is that why you don't call yourself a fashion brand? Is that right?

Naz (05:53.392)
Absolutely. It's a difficult one because we are obviously operating within the fashion space, but we don't think of ourselves as a fashion brand exactly to your point. We think of ourselves as a sustainable clothing company. That's how we've sort of called ourselves. That's how we refer to ourselves. It's about sustainability. It's about durability. It's about simple clothes that are made to last. We are not going to have trends or we're not focusing our marketing on

you know, how people look and feel, it's really about the fact that you have the same values as us. So we expect the people that are coming to us to share the same values that we have as founders of the business. We want a future for our children. We want a planet that is protected for our children. And that's where we believe we're going to resonate. And we do believe there are enough people out there now that feel the same way, that have the same beliefs. And that's why we're quite confident that there will be an audience out there for us.

Naila Mr (06:46.968)
It's interesting though, isn't it? Because I'm just thinking about it. So fast fashion is I buy a new thing every time. You're doing the opposite, slow fashion, kind of, but with that comes that behavior change in buying habits, right? So we've been so used to wanting to look great with the clothes we wear. You're saying be minimalistic with it, but how are you gonna change that behavior? One is...

Naz (06:57.565)
Yes.

Naila Mr (07:14.126)
they connect to your values, right? So I'm already a believer that I don't want to buy something when I buy something, I also throw away something or donate, not throw away, I donate something. How are you planning to shift that behavior or do you already see it?

Naz (07:28.733)
think I already see it. mean a really big example is the growth in platforms for reused clothing. They're becoming mainstream now. mean you've got platforms like Vintedoo are now mainstream and sort of some of the biggest players within markets and countries like France. And this is huge. They're competing against huge fashion brands like Zara, like H and actually they're the ones that are now growing that people are going to.

I think the younger generations are very conscious. They really believe that they can have a tie with their fashion and their beliefs. And that means that they will be wearing reused items. They will borrow things from friends. They believe in the circular economy in the loop of, let's borrow something from a friend, reuse it, pass it on to another friend. And I think this has been growing for a while. And think brands are having to actually adapt to that. And that's what I'm liking about this industry is that actually

Consumers are leading the way. They're the ones sort of dictating and saying to the brands, this is what we want to see. You can see the brands already now are trying to buy more sustainably, use more sustainable materials, but we're still not there yet. And I think the whole recycling has, it's got to a certain point, but it hasn't really grown as much as brands necessarily have wanted to. And that's why I believe the reuse is actually the place that it's going to really grow in the future.

HDco (08:50.059)
Yeah, I'm a huge fan and proponent of retailers like Poshmark that have huge marketplaces and essentially you're buying from a friend's closet. So they may have items that they've worn once or maybe bought on a whim and you can get things that are new with tags. So it's not just very high fashion things, know.

product, Gucci, that kind of thing. It's everyday brands like Lucky or Free People or Birkenstock or whatever. Although I would never buy used Birkenstocks. mean, that's just, they get disgusting over time. So I don't advise that. I would say probably half of my closet is purchased from some kind of

Naz (09:29.939)
It just feels weird.

Ha ha ha.

Naila Mr (09:36.349)
haha.

HDco (09:47.79)
thrift or reuse website like Poshmark. And I've had really good luck with almost everything. Some things like jeans or things that are more difficult to find the perfect fit. I've had some misses on that and we'll talk about that in another segment coming up soon. I'm a firm believer in companies like Poshmark who are enabling that.

Naila Mr (10:06.021)
Hmm

HDco (10:18.189)
There's another company here in Jacksonville, Florida called ReThreaded. And essentially they take old garments and then recycle them and turn those into new products of all different kinds. And there is a charitable cause behind that to help homeless and people who are disadvantaged. So there's a lot of feel good for that.

Naz (10:43.493)
I love that.

HDco (10:47.243)
love to see more of that kind of movement in the future.

Naz (10:51.875)
I agree and it's interesting seeing the younger generation, we have teenage nieces and I recently went on a shopping trip with them and assumed we would be going to the local mall and to one of the big brands but actually we went to a charity store and they were sifting through the rails looking for what they could pick up and there were things from you know...

items from probably older generations that were back in fashion, that were in trend. But it was so nice to see that a lot of the stigma that maybe we had as children growing up around secondhand clothing or items that were used, I think doesn't exist anymore. People really care about actually just protecting the planet, being conscious in their behavior of purchasing. And I really love that. It's something I really want to embrace and something I think is great for our future generations.

Naila Mr (11:39.588)
I know, now you're making me think about stuff. You're making me think, my God, I need to go visit my wardrobe. And especially with a baby, right? 14 month old who grows very quickly. So I mean, I had a friend at Unilever. She basically sent down her daughter's clothes for Isa. And most of it we've used till the age of one, one. But now when I go out, I just can't help look at new stuff. And then I'm like,

HDco (11:39.981)
Beautiful.

Naz (12:02.824)
Yeah.

Naila Mr (12:08.418)
I like, I do look at the labels and see is it sustainable, where is it sourced from and all of that. But I still am not in that mind shift. And I also like colour, by the way. So you said black is your, you've got black clothing. But what about a person like me who believes in what you're believing in, but wants colour?

Naz (12:11.507)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Naz (12:22.055)
Yes.

Naz (12:27.943)
Yes.

I mean, there's potential as time goes on. We have had customers saying, know, we love what you're doing. We love, but maybe branch out into gray or into white. And it's something that, you know, it's not totally off the spectrum, but I think for now we want to try and stick to as much as the kind of core origins that we're trying. But, you know, if it grows and if there is sort of the market and the demand, then of course we would like to see, you know, put available to, you know, what customers want. So that's important.

HDco (12:56.556)
I mean, you know charcoal is the new black, so...

Naz (12:59.033)
I know, I do love a good charcoal. I mean, it's...

HDco (13:01.088)
Now as you might be just a slight bit off trend if they had been all charcoal, I would have been like, she's got it.

Naz (13:08.819)
Yeah, I think we're always open to looking at where there's room to improve, room to answer the questions of customers and what they're looking for. It's really about saying, look, do people like what we're doing? Is there enough interest? And we'll take it from there. And again, it's about slow growth. So we're not looking to do fast expansion and big profits about slow growth and doing it in a conscious way.

HDco (13:36.396)
All right, shall we go around the room? Let's talk about fashion wins and wardrobe sins. Well, we've talked a lot about wardrobe sins and we're all feeling the guilt after this conversation with Nas about our consumerism and vanity. Any fashion wins anyone wants to talk about?

Naila Mr (13:40.792)
Yeah.

Naz (13:47.507)
You

Naz (13:56.573)
Flares.

Naila Mr (13:56.986)
Fashion wins.

HDco (13:58.039)
Flares.

Naz (13:59.656)
flares. mean, they just, for me, they're just the wide leg flare jeans. just, I've got some from university days. I mean, I really am a big believer of reuse. I've got clothes that I have worn since my university days. And as a mother of three, it makes me push myself to have to be healthy, eat healthy, do exercise so I can get back into those clothes that I used to wear that I love so much.

HDco (14:21.676)
Yeah, because that was going to be my other question. was like, well, what if you don't what if you're not the same size you were in your university days? Or Naila, I mean, she just had a little baby. You can't be like, you know, shaming her, you know, because she gained, you know, 15 vanity pounds. So.

Naz (14:28.431)
it forces you into it. I mean, I love eating. I'm at... But she looks great! She's obviously... She's obviously doing something,

Naila Mr (14:38.476)
Uh-uh. Uh-uh, no. I've got the same thing. I have actually kept my clothes, A, because they were new. And I was like, no, I refuse to, I'm going to fit into it. But because the fashion keeps coming back and I don't follow fashion, I have my own fashion. So even if flares was out, I was still wearing them. And the same with my Pakistani clothes. I really don't care what's happening. I keep my stuff going. So that's probably my fashion win.

Naz (14:43.058)
Ha

HDco (14:47.446)
Right.

Naila Mr (15:06.714)
but we're also lots of sisters, so we kind of recycle amongst each other. We're six of us, so it just goes round and round and down to our nieces. What about you, Quinn?

Naz (15:18.035)
You

HDco (15:18.44)
Nice, very nice. Fashion win recently, since we're talking about sisters, one of my besties used to work for Ann Taylor. And so she over shopped and came over during her time there and came over with about a thousand dollars worth of clothes, new with tags. And she's like, here you go. And this is one of those shirts, actually. So, yeah, so that's definitely a fashion win.

Naz (15:41.254)
Wow.

Naila Mr (15:43.186)
wow.

Naz (15:45.107)
Very nice.

Naila Mr (15:48.19)
that is.

HDco (15:48.429)
Fashion sin. was Amazon Prime Day recently and you know everything was on sale and so I had some stuff in my my cart and wish list and I bought this pencil skirt. I mean you want to talk about fashion fashion. I mean it just I got it. I tried it on. I was like this is garbage. I mean it's just complete garbage and so it's going back and I felt bad about that and you know I sort of think feel like our friend group we

Naz (16:03.379)
Ha ha!

Naila Mr (16:08.88)
Naz (16:11.072)
no.

HDco (16:18.262)
fall into two camps. Either you shop at Nordstrom, which is like Lord and Taylor, you know, in the UK, or, you know, they shop Amazon Prime and, you know, Shine or Shane, whatever it is. Sheen. I was like, God, really? Really? no, it's gonna last 10 minutes. You know, it's gonna tear or the zipper's gonna break and then it's just... So.

Naz (16:26.024)
Yeah.

Naz (16:31.085)
sheen yeah, no, that's a big no-no. That's where the landfills are getting their clothes from.

Naila Mr (16:32.012)
Sheen

Naz (16:43.375)
Absolutely, absolutely. And it's really hard to, you know, step away from that and actually say, look, you know, and I don't want to be sounding like I'm taking the moral high ground, but because I really understand, you know, we're all going through a cost of living crisis, we're all understanding that, you know, we have to tighten belts, etc. So when you have these companies like Sheen or Reserved, all these, you know, sort of just marketing you with these new, new clothes, incredibly reasonably priced, it's hard to resist and sort of say, no, I'm going to

spend that little bit extra and go for something that's going to last longer. But I truly believe it will last longer, it will stay with you for longer and so that investing that little bit more in the short term will pay off in the long term.

HDco (17:28.32)
Very good. So I guess, Naz, since you wear all black, you're going to have to... You did? All right, I'll introduce our guests while you retrieve that. So, Naz Paperio is a communication strategist and co-founder of Fifi, a Portugal-based sustainable fashion brand. She's on a mission to prove fashion can be thoughtful, long-lasting, and still make you feel like your best self.

Naila Mr (17:31.359)
I dropped my papers.

Naila Mr (17:36.4)
I did! Go ahead! Please do!

HDco (17:55.488)
She leads the comms and marketing side of Fifi and believes clothing should add value, not waste. Okay, let's move into the, and Nas, thank you again for joining us. So let's move into the near future. What's next in sustainable fashion over the next couple of years? Two to five years, let's say.

Naz (18:18.671)
I think that actually you're almost going to get to a point where there's like a digital passport for items of clothing where you can track all the way back to the origins of the garment to see where it was sourced, where the materials came from, have things been recycled, have things been reused. And I think that's transparency is something that customers are going to eventually demand and brands are going to have to catch up. I don't know how quickly we'll see that or how quickly we'll get to that point, but I do believe we are getting there.

HDco (18:48.117)
So kind of like as we're moving more into organic.

know, produce poultry, things of that nature. The consumers are wanting to know more of the backstory of, you know, how are these chickens raised? know, what is the beef being fed with? How are they being treated and slaughtered and things of that nature? So how would something like that work? Because, I mean, if you think about a parcel and we're talking like billions,

Naz (19:06.543)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Naz (19:16.465)
Yes, exactly.

Naila Mr (19:19.216)
Hmm.

HDco (19:25.553)
of items that get created every year. How do you track all that?

Naz (19:30.92)
I mean, I think it's incredibly difficult. think it's a huge shift in both mindset and infrastructure. So I think companies have to start and look all the way back to the point of assembly and almost sort of disassemble the piece of clothing, the beginning and say, where is this coming from? And how can we sort of create that sort of value in the chain for the customer? So I think that it will take time. think that brands are going to start to question sort of the value behind it, but realize eventually that customers do

this, they want to see this. And there's something around sort of recyclable clothes. So people will say, this is 100 % recyclable. But actually, it's very hard to get something 100 % recyclable and 100 % sort of sustainable because a lot of of clothing will have plastic built into them and people won't know that. So you really have to dig deep as a consumer. And people don't have time. They don't have the energy to do that, which is why I think that the onus will then be on the

brands to present that transparency so people can sort of you know take a look at label and say right let's track this all the way through and also to Naila's point earlier about where did this ship from you might say I bought it from here but actually half the parts came from across the world you know so it's understanding the entire piece from sourcing to supply chain to you know transport packaging where is it being held in between going from your house to

Naila Mr (20:38.511)
Yeah.

Naz (20:57.191)
the storage, know, so there's lots of factors that come into play here. So it's a lot of work, but if customers start to demand it, I think it will become a reality.

Naila Mr (21:06.48)
And there's a lot of factors that impact the value chain, right? We're talking about the value chain and you have to have partners and they have to be sustainable. mean, Unilever has been in this space 15 years where they're talking about sustainable tracing all the way down to the farmer, right? But it's a lot of work. It's an industry shift as well, right? A systemic one, yeah.

Naz (21:16.049)
Absolutely.

Naz (21:24.765)
Completely, completely.

HDco (21:28.501)
Well, like we said, we've seen it in the consumer packaged goods space. To the effect that that becomes a reality in the fashion space, I think it'll be an exciting thing to watch. I would say that over the last 15 years, there's been a shift in that CPG space. If you look at a lot of your big box retailers, like say Costco.

I've been a member for like 20 years and back in the day, they just had basically all of your primary household name brands. And most recently I've seen more organic, more sustainably sourced, more ethical products on the shelf at a reasonable price to the point where it's like, well, why would I buy

Naz (22:22.771)
you

HDco (22:24.491)
that anymore because this is better quality, it's better for me, and in a lot of cases it's cheaper. So there is some benefit to economies of scale. I know you said you don't want to be big, but being big and doing things the right way is a noble goal.

Naz (22:27.344)
Yeah.

Naz (22:33.167)
Absolutely. I think I'll... Sorry.

Naz (22:47.729)
Yeah, absolutely. And think there's a big piece here around sort of legislation and governments having a role to play because, you know, they need to start to sort of, you know, demand of brands and companies. You know, if you're selling X number of clothes, know, X number can't be on the landfill within sort of two weeks or, you know, protecting labor laws and labor practices. We know that a lot of these companies that are pumping out all of these clothes that consumers are demanding actually have terrible labor practices.

There's people in horrendous living conditions, with horrendous wages. What are we doing about this? This is being allowed, there's not enough legislation around this. I think that's really important. Governments really have a big role to play here. They're the ones that can have a big impact on brands and on organisations. So as consumers again, we should be demanding that and sort crying out to governments to make these changes.

Naila Mr (23:42.16)
Hmm.

HDco (23:46.379)
Yeah, you know, fortunately, we can only have a say in the governments that, you know, in the countries that we reside in. You know, I recall probably about 15, 20 years ago, a company called American Apparel came on the scene and they hired people locally in Los Angeles, you know, in a factory with, you know, products.

Naila Mr (24:03.631)
Mm-hmm.

HDco (24:14.026)
I believe all the products were sourced in America. the price point on a t-shirt was probably like 30 % more. But then you got one and realized, wow, this is great quality and they're not being made by people in sweatshops in Southeast Asia. I know that that's troubling. And anyone with a conscience doesn't want to be

Naila Mr (24:23.428)
Hmm.

Naz (24:32.019)
Exactly.

HDco (24:43.828)
purchasing anything from those kinds of labor sources. So one of your philosophies is to encourage people to buy less and buy better. What does that mean?

Naz (24:50.298)
Exactly.

Naz (25:01.361)
I think it's about understanding the value piece. It's about saying you don't need lots of new clothes, you don't need lots of new items of clothing to make you feel a certain way. It's about saying have fewer items that are good quality. We believe that your clothing should grow with you and not be thrown out. That's really important to us. I guess I feel strongly about that. Like I said to you before, I still wear a lot of clothes from my university days, the ones that have been built to last.

I still love and I think that's really important. It's about saying we really believe in the quality of our clothes and you know we went to the factories, we looked at all the samples, we tested them, we wore them ourselves, we've put them through lots of washes, we've given them to friends and you know they are good quality clothes. We believe in them, we wear them ourselves and we believe that

you don't as a customer of Fifi need to come to us and buy, you know, one every six months. We'd be happy if we don't see you again. That sounds kind of crazy, but that's what we believe. We'd rather...

Naila Mr (26:01.936)
Hmph.

HDco (26:02.354)
Again, you're blowing my mind here. I'm like, can we, can we stop the mic? She doesn't really mean this.

Naila Mr (26:04.356)
Yeah.

Naz (26:07.155)
Hahaha!

Naila Mr (26:07.632)
Heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.

Naz (26:10.643)
We're simple people, we have simple wants and desires. We just want as many people to come to us and get a t-shirt, get a hoodie and say, this is great. We're gonna keep this and we're gonna keep it for the next five, six years. We don't need to come back to you. We'll tell our friend because it's great and hopefully they'll come and buy it from you. But we don't want to see you all the time. That's not the point. That's not what we're trying to achieve. We sourced everything so carefully in order to make sure that we would achieve that goal. I believe it and I just hope that enough people

sort of share this with us and can say yeah you know what I'm gonna buy this I'm gonna tell all my friends and we have a very small markup on what we produce like I said we're not trying to take over the world and we just hope that in some small way it helps towards this shift that we're hoping to see.

HDco (27:00.234)
almost like a brand as a statement versus brand as enterprise.

Naila Mr (27:00.462)
I like.

Yeah!

Naz (27:04.369)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean you sort of hit the nail on the head there, Quinn. This originally started off as like a passion project and a mission.

HDco (27:14.09)
Mm-hmm.

Naz (27:14.225)
In our eyes, it was a mission. We weren't people that were saying, want to go out and start a company. We believe that something needs to change in fashion. We came from backgrounds where we'd seen a lot of fashion and what it was doing to the planet. We do other things in our lives, like replanting trees and reforestation programs in Portugal. So we have a very strong tie to protecting the planet and our environment. And we have three kids.

I'm scared for the world and the future for them. And people say, what can you do? What can you do? Of course, it's really difficult, but every small step that you make, every small thing has an impact. And for us, this was that step. This was the change that we thought we could see. And that's why we're doing this.

Naila Mr (27:59.29)
Mm.

HDco (28:00.053)
That's wonderful. So what do you think the younger generations are doing better than we did?

Naz (28:12.987)
I think they are more conscious. something I've noticed in the younger generations and nieces and nephews of mine is they do really believe that what they say and what they do is what defines them more than necessarily what they wear. I don't know how this sort of cultural shift has come about through the generations. I remember feeling a lot of pressure as a sort of a teen or growing up around the clothes you wear, the style you have, the look. And I don't...

HDco (28:39.482)
yeah, totally. mean, 80s and 90s when I was growing up, mean, if you didn't have a certain brand, you weren't cool. I mean, it is to some degree, you know.

Naila Mr (28:49.552)
Mm.

Naz (28:50.905)
Exactly, exactly. Is it still there? Yeah, it probably is. It probably is. No.

Naila Mr (28:52.24)
It's still there in elves, yeah. Not with the younger ones, like you're saying. I mean, well, some of them, but it's more about, I want this brand because I know it's good for my skin, or I want this one because, sometimes it's peer pressure, all my friends have it.

Naz (29:11.533)
Mmm, mmm, yeah, yeah.

Naila Mr (29:14.734)
Yeah.

Naz (29:14.791)
But I just see this sort of shift that it's, don't know, don't, maybe it's the kids that I know and they're sort of different, but I don't feel they need the clothes to, you know, sort of show who they are, express who they are. They're doing it through the things that they're doing. And I love that. Maybe it's a sort of underlying rebellion that's taken place over the years, but I feel really positive about it. I feel that it's something that I hope it lasts and that my children go through the same thing.

HDco (29:30.068)
Gotcha.

Naz (29:44.725)
you

Naila Mr (29:46.21)
yeah, well, we've got our next generation to get going and gearing them up to do what we do and they're going to learn from us, You know, Quinn, I know we're going to move to the next segment and you know what that is, right? Across the pond. But we didn't ask and I don't know if I'm going to ask it later, but what does Fifi mean? Like, where'd you come up with that name?

Naz (29:54.759)
Absolutely.

HDco (30:01.065)
Cross the pond.

Naz (30:10.003)
There is a story there, but I'm not sure I can 100 % give it away. I think that there is a story there because it interestingly is a very commonly used name. So when we were looking for things like domains and things, Fifi appears everywhere. And it sounds slightly sort of fluffy and airy, but it's got quite a strong meaning behind it. I think watch this space.

Naila Mr (30:15.382)
Okay.

HDco (30:34.993)
you're not going to tell us.

Naila Mr (30:36.962)
Okay.

Naz (30:37.031)
to find out for the big reveal as to what it means.

Naila Mr (30:40.194)
okay. I like, I like that. All right. So Quinn, yeah, let's do it. I think this is you asking the question, right? Go on.

HDco (30:40.829)
Alright, I'm looking forward to the brand video. So send me a script Okay, we do across the pond now? Alright Yes So Nas you're in Portugal and Fifi is Portuguese at its core any surprising cultural differences and how people approach fashion and sustainability in the UK and I mean I could speak to the US and in Portugal

Naz (31:11.091)
I mean, think something that's really interesting and again, sort of contributed to the whole idea behind Fifi is Portugal has a hugely rich history in terms of textiles. And not a lot of people will know this that aren't from Portugal, but the North of Portugal has a big textile industry historically. And we have factories and incredible seamstresses who are incredibly trained and are able to sort of turn around products and things.

and have spent years doing this and that's their job and they're skilled and they love what they do and I think that also helped sort of behind the idea of let's do this in Portugal and you know it's an industry that has been you know crafted and loved and honed for years and so there's an experience and a legacy here that we wanted to sort of you know take advantage of and that's slightly different I guess to somewhere like the UK where I'm from where

you know, it's probably, it may have existed in the past, but now it's probably more about sort of automation and factories and less, you know, individuals. And so I think we wanted to use that history as part of our story as well. So that's a big cultural difference. And I think just...

Overall people are more sort of family centric, family orientated, so in terms of things like the sharing of the clothes and the things, it's natural, it's all very natural and I think it comes very easily as a culture.

HDco (32:48.445)
Well, I here in the United States, we don't make anything. So that's a huge cultural difference. that's, you know, short of like couture fashion, you know, which is, you know, hand stitched and, you know, some, you know, factory and in New York, essentially everything that we we make comes from somewhere else. And I'm talking about in terms of, I mean, I have heard of brands that have been popping up that have

Naz (32:51.655)
Ha ha ha

Naila Mr (32:53.882)
I wonder.

HDco (33:17.735)
you know, touted their sourcing of American grown cotton and other materials that are used to make clothing. But in terms of being able to manufacture anything at scale, that's, that just really, doesn't exist at a proportional level that I would say makes any real difference.

Naz (33:43.695)
All

Naila Mr (33:43.952)
Yeah. And you talked about in the local markets, right? You were saying that we're going to sell locally, distribution and everything, right? So where are you currently set up? And are there any differences between the consumers?

Naz (33:56.403)
Yeah.

Naz (34:00.126)
So what?

Naz (34:04.283)
Yeah, you're absolutely right. mean, interestingly, we're actually marketing and starting all the operations in the UK. So we produce everything and then we have a sort of a shipment has gone to the UK and then everything has been stored in the UK and will ship from the UK to UK customers. The reason for this is actually a sort of going back to the question about cultural, we just felt that there was more...

more awareness and more demand of conscious consumerism in the UK than there perhaps is in Portugal right now. It's something that we felt from experience in the fashion world, from conversations we had with different groups of people in both countries, and just what we've seen in terms of the marketplace, in terms of growth of different brands that are trying to do things similar to us.

HDco (34:36.146)
Hmm.

Naz (34:53.851)
I think that will change and over time I hope that shift will occur and eventually we will start marketing and selling in Portugal. But for now our one market that we started in and operating in is the UK. And again it comes down to size. You know it's big country, more consumers and it's just it's almost our test place. So let's see what happens. Watch this space.

Naila Mr (35:18.672)
I need to be walking around with your brand, your clothing. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I do.

Naz (35:22.353)
You do, you do, you do. You need one of our Fifi jumpers.

HDco (35:26.897)
I'm still waiting for my swag bag. I'm assuming it will be here any day. I, other than seeing...

Naz (35:29.139)
I don't want to ship it from Portugal you see across the world so I'll wait for somebody to go and visit in the US and bring it to you personally.

Naila Mr (35:29.904)
You

HDco (35:36.969)
I see. So I need to get on a jetliner and go over there and pick it up. Okay.

Naila Mr (35:37.562)
She's coming!

Hey, wait, Quinn, when did you say you're coming in September?

HDco (35:46.653)
really depends on when my passport is ready. I'm doing everything I can to get that paperwork done and all that. So I'm hoping it will be in September.

Naila Mr (35:49.488)
All right.

Naz (35:54.356)
well you will have a set of six items waiting for you when you land in the UK.

HDco (35:57.991)
All right, I'll send you my sizes.

Naila Mr (36:00.73)
So, so, Daz, I know we're gonna go, Quinn, you know I have to get into questions still. So are these, what kind of, what kind of clothing is it? I can't wear an office, can I?

Naz (36:12.711)
So it's casual clothing. So we have two t-shirts, a polo, a hoodie and joggers. So it really is casual clothing. You know, I'm wearing one of the t-shirts now. Good quality. I've got a hoodie here. And it's about being comfortable and at home. I mean, the interesting thing now is that actually...

people seem to be wearing similar things in the office and at home. There's less of this formality in going into the office in kind of trousers and shirts. And actually you see a lot of people, and probably the audience that we're appealing to, the younger generations are going in in their tracksuit bottoms and hoodies into the office. So I think it appeals to a large group of people. I think you can wear, we wear the clothes everywhere we go. And I think that it's...

It's really down to you what you feel comfortable in, and it's good quality, so I think it does stand out.

Naila Mr (37:10.554)
Okay, so that means I'm gonna push my own fashion. I'm gonna wear a pair of heels under it. Shall we move into our... Heels that I've had for the past 12 years and COVID came so I never wore them. My feet are small compared to everyone else. People used to make fun of me. They used to say, do you get your shoes from Mothercares, a baby's brand?

Naz (37:14.595)
Absolutely, absolutely.

HDco (37:18.963)
Sustainably sourced heels, of course.

Naz (37:20.915)
You

Naz (37:25.437)
that were passed down to you from somebody.

HDco (37:32.649)
Yeah, just like.

Naz (37:38.643)
Ha ha ha ha ha

Naila Mr (37:40.238)
I used to shop in children's section. You...

HDco (37:40.713)
What size are your feet, Nailah?

Naz (37:42.493)
But I was going to say it's really good for the wallet because you can shop in the children's section.

Naila Mr (37:46.69)
Yes, UK 4 and sometimes 3.5 if they're heels. Yeah, yeah. And before the baby I was

HDco (37:51.091)
Okay, so.

Naz (37:51.17)
wow! that is small.

HDco (37:54.247)
So that's what like a five or six in US or okay. Yeah. that is.

Naila Mr (37:58.106)
Probably, yeah, and before the... It's more?

HDco (38:02.492)
Just to give you a frame of reference, my 12 year old wears a size 8. Yeah, she's got a big, big feet, so.

Naz (38:03.335)
That's small.

Naila Mr (38:08.407)
hey.

Naz (38:09.809)
Yeah.

Naila Mr (38:13.006)
You know my older sister who's five years older? She's even smaller than me. Yeah. Well.

Naz (38:18.803)
How is that even possible? I thought three was the smallest size.

HDco (38:22.715)
One second.

Naz (38:25.446)
You

HDco (38:26.125)
Nyla has great coordination on those, you know, in balance on those tiny little...

Naila Mr (38:29.284)
I do. So shall we move into our future segment? And usually we take out the crystal ball for this, but you may take out a crystal ball. You might pull in, say, I've got enough insight and knowledge and experience to talk about 10 and 20 years from now. But Nas, if we keep pushing sustainability, what do you think in the next 10 to 20 years? And I think you've touched upon it a bit.

Naz (38:30.259)
you

Naila Mr (38:57.124)
What does it look like in 10 to 20 years? What does brands and fashion and clothing look like?

Naz (39:03.079)
I mean, for me, in an ideal world, fast fashion will be obsolete. It will have gone. We won't see it. It will be about slow, conscious consumerism, exactly what I was talking about earlier, where people are going to demand the transparency and the journey of a piece of clothing so they can really trace it all the way back and say, yeah, I believe in this company. I believe this has been produced ethically. And we will see, you know,

again very ideal, no longer will there be landfills, no longer will there be people getting paid below average wages for their work. We will have people being treated fairly, labour practices that are in line with legislation and hopefully

closing the entire circular economy loop. That's what we would love to be a part of. That's what we're hoping to contribute to. We would love to be remembered as a brand that helped close that loop. I think we have very far to go, but that's what I would love to see.

Naila Mr (40:07.556)
You touched upon that word.

HDco (40:08.082)
It's certainly a wonderful ideal, assuming that robots aren't making all of that in 10 or 20 years. one of the things that I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead, Naila.

Naz (40:13.883)
Yes. Yes.

Naila Mr (40:15.928)
I was gonna go down another route.

No, no, we can go into like fabrics and the future of fabrics in another episode because when I was at DuPont and this is like 15, no, 20 years ago, they were already talking about the future of fabrics, microfabrics, chips in the fabric, but that's another conversation. Quinn.

Naz (40:37.587)
Hmm.

HDco (40:39.644)
Yeah, for sure. That definitely reminds me of a guest we had who's created a soil and marine biodegradable plastic that has an amazing range of uses. so one of his best friends is looking to launch a brand of sustainable apparel called Saltlove. And so we've already been thinking about like, what could this plastic be used for?

buttons, zippers, things that clasp, parts that go into hats and bags, and certainly things of that nature. Because it's a very durable plastic, but if it ends up in a landfill or ends up in the ocean, it will be consumed by microbes.

Naz (41:11.34)
nice.

Naz (41:22.227)
Mmm.

Naz (41:32.007)
Hmm.

Naz (41:38.279)
Yeah.

Naila Mr (41:38.288)
Mm-hmm.

HDco (41:38.812)
disappears within like a year. So I do think that there's hope. I did have a question. What is what does circular industry or circular economy mean?

Naila Mr (41:49.124)
I was gonna ask that, yeah.

Naz (41:50.972)
I thought you were going to I'm going to answer that. I think it...

Naila Mr (41:53.314)
No!

HDco (41:54.781)
No, we don't know. We're here to learn things. We're just, you know, two chicks with a microphone, so...

Naz (41:58.708)
it's about having the whole thing closing the loop. So it's about from the point when you start, we're sourcing the materials from somewhere that's sustainable and then it's being produced in a sustainable way, being shipped then in a sustainable way, stored and then shipped out in a sustainable way. So the entire...

value chain customer sort of journey is sustainable. So I think a lot of companies at the moment are doing one piece of the loop very well or focusing on one piece, but they're not actually taking the whole journey into account. And we are trying to do that at Fifi.

from the minute of know actually producing and sourcing everything locally to then storing things in the country where we ship to and then only ship into the country where you buy from and I think that's really important because we really are trying to look at that entire piece and not that many people are doing that at the moment.

Naila Mr (42:59.214)
Yeah, you talked about, there's literally four Rs, right? So how do you reduce? So if you're using plastics, how do you reduce plastic? So it goes all the way back to R &D and how you develop. How do you recycle in the whole process? How do you reuse something in that process? So clothing reusing, and the other one is regenerate. So how do you regenerate through that process?

It's not easy. Again, all actors and players need to play together, but it's about thinking differently when you're designing a product, when you're manufacturing a product, when you're marketing a product, when it's at the consumer end. It's like when you take water out of the ground, how do you ensure it's going back? Right? So what you take out needs to go back. It's that kind of thinking.

Naz (43:23.88)
Yeah.

Naz (43:33.434)
Absolutely.

Naz (43:40.178)
Yes.

Naz (43:44.026)
Absolutely and to sort of close that loop somebody would finish with the product of ours and then actually then share it with a friend or their son or daughter or and then that person would use it and when they're eventually finished with it hopefully many many many years down the line that product might be used to then regenerate and create the next Fifi jumper perhaps in a different colour so that really is about kind of closing the whole loop.

HDco (44:06.631)
say it isn't so. Well, eventually black does fade to gray, But I'm sure you use pretty amazing dye and you know that that holds up right?

Naz (44:11.907)
Exactly, exactly.

Naila Mr (44:12.076)
that's still it.

Naz (44:18.045)
Yeah, well.

Naila Mr (44:18.084)
Yeah, exactly. So, Nas, if you had to redesign the whole industry, I won't call it fashion because you're not really talking, you're talking about the clothing industry and all of that, and you could start from scratch, what is that one thing you would start with?

HDco (44:34.899)
That's the question I wanted you to ask. I looked at this like, this is the one thing I wanna know of this whole interview. If you could start over and do it the way that you envision would make a better world, what would that look like?

Naila Mr (44:37.998)
Haha!

Naz (44:48.157)
think it's about...

designed for longevity. It's about that. You have to design for the long term. You have to design items that are durable, items that will last. And I think that's not what's happening currently. I think now we design for trends, we design for collections, we design for groups of consumers, and those things aren't made to last. And that's what ends up pushing over consumption and why things

up on landfill. So for me it's right back down to the design and that's a huge shift in everything, in mindset for the industry, for people, for brands, organisations and again all the things that we talked about earlier on in this session.

really play into that. So if you're designing for durability, you need to make sure you're sourcing the right products. You need to make sure that you have people in play that are being looked after while they're creating these things. And localised production, I think that's really important. Where can we localise production? You know, let's stop trying to produce things.

Naila Mr (45:51.642)
Hmm.

You- Yeah.

HDco (45:55.624)
How about here in the United States? We should start making things a bit again.

Naz (45:59.848)
Definitely, definitely.

Naila Mr (46:00.418)
I... Hey, Quinn is like saying, hey, let's do something together.

Naz (46:07.013)
Yeah, we'll start Fifi over there. No problem. We just need a bass.

HDco (46:07.163)
Yeah, if we want to open... Sure. Fifi US. Fifi Florida.

Naila Mr (46:10.094)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Nas, but you, yeah, why not? You talked about it though. If you start with design, it's because they're consciously designing like that for profit. You talked about the fact that we're not in this for profit. We're in this to change how things are happening. So I think there's something about people need to stop thinking about.

Naz (46:34.418)
Yeah.

Naila Mr (46:37.838)
well, when a business might not exist, but there are ways of existing if you don't put profit in mind first and you design differently.

Naz (46:43.709)
Yeah.

I think, look, I mean, let's be realistic. Obviously, you know, we're not doing this just for the fun of it. You know, we're not doing it for free. We've got a family. We've got bills like everybody else. And it's about the scale of the profit. It's about being fair. It's about being, you know, equal in what we're doing. So we want to pay the people that produce in this affair fair, you know, price. want the people that are making this, that are helping ship this. We want everybody to have their cup. But there's, you know, we've got to a point now where where organisations and brands and

Naila Mr (46:50.586)
For free,

Naz (47:16.127)
companies, their profits are so wild and out of touch with the individuals making the actual product. So I read something, a statistic recently, which said something like, you know, the CEO of a company will be earning

something crazy, I can't even remember the exact number, something like 130 or something times more than the individual making the item. That's just not necessary. It's not necessary to have such a huge discrepancy within organisations. Why should somebody get so much more than another individual simply because of their status, their role within an organisation? And that's something that's really core to our values at FIFI as well. We want to make some profit, but just enough for us to live on that's fair, it's nothing crazy.

It's just not needed. The Jeff Bezos' of this world and people like this, they're proven. And people see that they're being called out now. You saw what happened when he went to Italy to have a wedding. The locals didn't want it. It's greed. It's greed and overconsumption. And I think people are fighting against that now.

Naila Mr (48:10.405)
Yeah.

Naila Mr (48:19.45)
So what's the legacy that you hope Fifi is gonna leave behind?

Naz (48:25.171)
Good question. think we would like to be remembered as a brand that closed the loop and opened minds.

HDco (48:38.097)
think that's well said. Shall we move to the rap?

Naila Mr (48:38.82)
Great.

Naila Mr (48:42.318)
Yes, let's do it. This was great.

HDco (48:45.479)
Bye.

What's one takeaway you want your listeners to carry with them the next time they shop? Don't do Amazon Prime.

Naz (48:54.351)
You are not your clothes. No, definitely not. It really is about this. You are unique. You are not your clothes. Your clothes don't define you.

Naila Mr (48:57.85)
Hahaha

HDco (49:06.577)
think that's well said.

Naila Mr (49:06.924)
her tag. You are unique. You're not defined by your clothes. Okay I love that. Okay so

HDco (49:15.611)
Well, that wraps this episode of Now, Near, and the Future, and I just stepped on your line.

Naila Mr (49:23.258)
Go for it.

HDco (49:25.359)
Now it's, I've already interrupted you, so I apologize.

Naz (49:28.999)
Ha ha.

Naila Mr (49:29.296)
Oh no. So that wraps up this episode of Now, Near, In The Future. I'm not saying in an American accent. You can find us on all the usual platforms, Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon, and YouTube. You can follow us on Instagram and on LinkedIn at Now, Near, Future, or visit us at nownearfuture.com.

HDco (49:51.383)
And if you love this episode, be sure to share it, subscribe, like, leave a review. That's how we gain listeners and help to educate the world about better ways to shop and buy. And I think that's a good thing. And if you didn't like it, maybe just pretend your headphones died.

Naz (50:12.339)
Hahaha

Naila Mr (50:12.944)
I love it. So, Nas, where can people find you and find Fifi online?

Naz (50:22.161)
Okay, so we are on Instagram, Fifiwear, and we have a website that is up and running. We would love to see you. And it is www.fifi-wear.com.

HDco (50:35.353)
be sure to put that on the screen as well. Nas, thank you so much for being here. This was inspiring, eye-opening, and very well dressed.

Naila Mr (50:45.858)
I love it. And as always, stay curious, keep dreaming and we will.

Naz (50:45.949)
Thank you very much for having me guys. Loved it.

HDco (50:53.797)
See you in the future.